From Adam and Eve to the procreation of the human race
Explanations on Genesis
The most famous wife in history?
The answer to the most common question about Creation: from Adam and Eve to the procreation of the human race
![adam-eve_400x400[1]](https://www.veritadellabibbia.it/wp-content/uploads/adam-eve_400x4001-300x300.jpg)
One of the reasons why many Christians do not know the answer to the question about Cain's wife is that they focus attention on the world today and the problems that would result from marriages between close relatives, and not on the clear testimony that God has given us. They try to interpret Genesis starting from the current situation, rather than understanding the biblical history of the world and the changes that have occurred because of sin. Because they do not build their view of reality on the basis of scriptures, but they accept a secularized way of interpreting the Bible, they remain blind to simple answers.
Genesis is the account of the God who was present when the historical events occurred, the Word of One who knows all and who is a reliable witness of the past. So, when we start from Genesis as a basis for understanding history, we can understand facts that would otherwise remain mysterious.
If indeed evolution were true, science would have an even bigger problem explaining Cain's wife: how can a man have evolved from mutations (errors) in previous organizations, since that process would have given birth to completely malformed beings? The fact that offspring can be produced without major malformations is a testament to Creation, not of evolution.
Here is the explanation:
Bible skeptics have repeatedly used Cain's wife to try to discredit the book of Genesis as a reliable historical document. It is sad that most Christians have not been able to give an adequate answer to this question. Consequently, the world sees them as unable to defend the authority of scripture, and with it, the Christian faith.
For example, at the historic Scopes trial in Tennessee in 1925, William Jennings Bryan, the lawyer who defended the Christian faith, he could not answer questions about Cain's wife made the American Civil Liberties Union lawyer Clarence Darrow. Consider the following excerpt from the trial transcript in which Darrow interrogates Bryan:
D. You never know from where Cain took his wife?
R. No, lord. I leave the agnostics to investigate on her.
D. You've never heard?
R. I never tried.
D. Have you ever tried to know?
R. No.
D. The Bible says that it has taken a, no? There were other people on the earth in those days?
R. I can not tell.
D. You know not to say. Have you ever considered?
R. The question has never concerned me.
D. There were no reports of other people, But Cain found his wife.
R. This is what the Bible says.
D. Whence came, you do not know.
The press around the world was taken from this cause, which had repercussions for Christianity to date: Christians do not know how to defend the biblical text!
Recently the same example was quoted by Carl Sagan in his book Contact (a best-seller according to the ranking of the newspaper The New York Times) and it was also used in the movie of the same title drawn from his work.
In the book we read of a fictional character, Ellie, and how he can not get answers from the wife of a clergyman who heads a group discussion:
Ellie had never read the Bible so seriously ..., during the weekend preceding her first class, He began reading what seemed the most important part of the Old Testament. Trying to keep an open mind, all at once he recognized that there were two different and mutually contradictory stories of Creation ... and had trouble figuring out exactly who it was that Cain married.
Sagan, in an attempt to give a “test” that the Bible is full of contradictions and can not be defended, cleverly a list of questions are often directed at Christians, including the one about Cain's wife.
The truth is that probably the majority of Christians do not know the answer to these questions! however, There are some answers! But, since in most churches it lacks the teaching of apologetics, particularly with regard to the book of Genesis, the majority of believers is not capable of being “always ready to give an account for the hope that is in you to everyone who asks you a reason” (1 Pietro 3:15).
Why this is important?
Many skeptics have claimed that for Cain to find a wife, there must have been other “races” Human beings on Earth, who were not descendants of Adam and Eve. Among so many, This has been an impediment to acceptance of the Genesis account of the creation of one man and one woman at the beginning of the story. Defenders of the gospel must be able to prove that all mankind are descendants of one man and one woman (Adam and Eve), since only the descendants of Adam and Eve can be saved. therefore, believers must be able to explain Cain's wife and show clearly that she was a descendant of Adam and Eve.
Bible reading:
Genesis 4:1 — Genesis 5:5
One of the more common queries to the speaker on the Creation is: “Where Cain took his wife?”
To answer this question, we must first go through the background information concerning the meaning of the Gospel.
The first man
“therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death, and so death passed upon all men, because all sinned. . . ” (Romans 5:12).
In 1 Corinthians 15:45 we read that Adam was “the first man”. God did not start by creating a “race” of men. The Bible makes it clear that only the descendants of Adam can be saved. Romans 5 He teaches that we are sinners because Adam sinned. The death penalty, which Adam received as judgment for his sin of rebellion, It has been inherited by all his descendants.
Since Adam, When “Street”, He was the head of the human race, For we also are his offspring we fell with him. So we are all separated from God. The final consequence of sin would be separation of sinners from God forever. But there is a way for us to return to God!
Because a man brought sin into the world and death, mankind, descendants of Adam, He needed a sinless Man to pay the penalty for sin and the resulting death sentence. However, the Bible teaches that “all have sinned” (Romans 3:23). What could be the solution?
The last Adam
God provided the solution: a way to deliver man from his wretched state. Paul explains 1 Corinthians chapter 15 that God provided another Adam! The Son of God became man: a perfect man, yet still close relative! He is called “the last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45), because he took the place of the first man. He became the new head, and sinless, He was able to pay the penalty for sin.
“For since by a man came death, comes also through a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:22-23).
Christ suffered death (the iniquity) on the cross, shedding His blood (and without bloodshed there is no forgiveness — Jews 9:22), so those who have placed their trust in His work on the cross can be, repent of their sins of rebellion in Adam, and be reconciled to God.
So, only the descendants of the first man, Adamo, They can be saved.
All relatives
Since the Bible says that all mankind is sinful, and that we are all relatives (proceedings 17:26: He made from one blood every nation of men , to dwell on all the face of the earth), the Gospel presupposes that all living human beings and those who have lived in all times (except the first donna7) are descendants of the first man, Adamo. If not, the gospel could not be explained or defended.
So, at the beginning there was only one man, made from the dust of the earth (Genesis 2:7).
This means that even Cain's wife was a descendant of Adam. It could not be of another “race” of human beings: It must be included among the descendants of Adam.
The first woman
In Genesis 3:20, we read: “The man called his wife Eve, because it was the mother of all living”. In other words, all human beings, with the exception of Adam, are descendants of Eve: she was the first woman.
Eve was made from Adam's side (Genesis 3:21-24); This was a unique event. In the New Testament, Jesus (Matteo 19:4-6) and Paul (Ephesians 5:31) cite this historical fact as the foundation of marriage between a man and a woman.
Yet, in Genesis 2:20 we are told that when Adam looked at the animals, he found a suitable mate: there was no one of his kind.
All this makes us realize that from the beginning there was only one woman, Adam's wife. There could be a “race” women.
So, if Christians are not able to defend that all humans (including Cain's wife) derive ultimately from Adam and Eve, then how can they explain the Gospel? How can they justify sending missionaries to every tribe and nation? Therefore it is necessary that we answer the question about Cain's wife to be able to defend the Gospel and all that it teaches.
WIFE OF CAIN
Who was Cain?
Cain was the first child of Adam and Eve, as documented in Scripture (Genesis 4:1). He and his brothers, Abele (Genesis 4:2) and Set (Genesis 4:25), They were part of the first generation of children ever born on this earth. But, though only these three males are specifically appointed, Adam and Eve had other children.
Brothers and sisters Cain
In Genesis 5:4, we read a summary of the life of Adam and Eve:
“Having begotten Seth, Adam lived eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters”.
In the course of their lives, Adam and Eve had a number of male and female children. Indeed, the Jewish historian Josephus wrote that “the number of the sons of Adam, according to an ancient tradition, it was of 33 sons and 23 daughters”.
Scripture does not tell us how many children were born to Adam and Eve, However, considering their long life (Adam lived 930 years - Genesis 5:5), it seems logical to suggest there were many! (Remember, they were commanded to: “Be fruitful and multiply”, Genesis 1:28).
The wife
Now, if we rely solely on Scripture, without any personal prejudices or other biblical ideas, then in principle, when there was only the first generation, they had to marrying between brothers and sisters, otherwise there would be no more generations!
We do not know when Cain married, and even the details of other marriages or his children, But we can say with certainty that Cain's wife was his sister, or another close relative.
OBJECTIONS
God's laws
Many people immediately reject the conclusion that the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve had to marry each other, appealing to the law against consanguineous marriages. Some say that you can not marry your close relatives. But actually, if one does not marry a relative, not marry a human being! A wife is related to her husband before marrying, because all humans are descendants of Adam and Eve: all are of the same blood.
The law forbidding close relatives marrying was not given until the time of Moses (Leviticus 18-20). Provided that marriage was between a man and a woman for life (see Genesis 1 e 2), there was no disobedience to God's original law (that is, before the time of Moses) when close relatives - even brothers and sisters - were married to each other. Remember that Abraham married his half sister (Genesis 20:12)9. God's law then forbade such marriages, but only four hundred years later, the time of Moses.
congenital malformations
Today, the law does not allow brothers and sisters (and half-brothers, stepsisters, etc.) to marry and have children.
Now, it is true that children born from marriages between brother and sister are more likely to be born malformed. Indeed, the closer the relationship between a pair, the greater the likelihood of having a child is malformed. It is very easy to understand this, even without going into technical details.
Each person inherits the genes of the mother and father. Unfortunately, genes today contain many mistakes (because of sin and the curse), and these errors are manifested in several ways. For example, there are people that makes hair grow over their ears to hide the fact that one ear is lower than the other, or it happens that someone's nose is not the center of the face, or that the jaw is a bit 'distorted, and so on. We see that the main reason why we call ourselves “normal” it is because we agreed!
Closer is the kinship between two people, the greater the probability of having the same mistakes in their genes, as they are inherited from the same parents. For this, chances are brother and sister have similar mistakes in their genetic material. But though a union between the two, in order to have children, the children inherit their parents' genes. Since it is likely that these genes have similar errors, the pair of associated errors produces a malformation in children.
Vice versa, the more distant the relationship between parents, the greater the likelihood that they have different mistakes in their genes. The children, who inherit a gene from each parent, They will probably end up with a pair of genes containing only one bad gene. the gene “good” It tends to override the bad, so that a malformation (least severe) It is not produced. Instead of having totally deformed ears, for example, a person can only have them crooked! (however, mankind as a whole is slowly degenerating because of errors accumulated generation after generation).
Anyway, this fact of life today did not apply to Adam and Eve. When these two people were created, they were perfect. Everything God made was “very good” (Genesis 1:31). This means their genes were perfect, without mistakes! But when sin entered the world (because of Adam — Genesis 3:6), God cursed the world, so that the perfect creation then began to degenerate, that is, They suffer death and decay (Romans 8:22). During the long period of time elapsed since then, this degeneration has produced all sorts of errors in the genetic material of living things.
Cain, But, was the first generation of children ever born. He (as well as his brothers and sisters) They had not received virtually no imperfect genes from Adam or Eve, since the effects of sin and the Curse would have been minimal to. In this situation, brothers and sisters could marry (provided it was one man and one woman - is this marriage [Matteo 19:4-6]) - Without any potential to produce deformed children.
At the time of Moses, instead (circa 2.500 years after), the degenerative mistakes would have accumulated to such an extent in the human race that became necessary for God to bring the law to ban marriages between brothers and sisters and other close relatives (Leviticus 18-20)11. Also, there were many people on earth, and there was no reason for close relations to marry them.
In summary, it seems that there were three reasons for the introduction of laws forbidding marriages between blood relatives:
- As already discussed, there was the need to protect against the growing risk of giving birth to malformed children.
- God's laws were aimed at maintaining a strong Jewish nation, healthy and aligned to God's plans.
- These laws served to protect the individual, the structure of the family and society in general. In fact, the psychological damage caused by incestuous relationships should not be minimized.
Cain to the land of Nod
Some claim that the song by Genesis 4:16-17 it means that Cain went to the land of Nod and found a wife has. So they conclude that there must have been another race of people on earth, who were not descendants of Adam, and from which she came from Cain's wife.
Cain went out from the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bore Enoch; And he built a city which he called Enoch, after the son.
From what is written above, it is clear that all humans, including Cain's wife, are descendants of Adam. Anyway, this passage does not say that Cain went to the land of Nod and found a wife. John Calvin, commentary on these verses, writes:
“From the context we may gather that Cain, before killing his brother, He had married a wife; otherwise Moses would now have related something respecting his marriage”.
Cain was married before he went to the land of Nod. He found his wife, piuttosto is “He knew” (He had sex with) his moglie13.
Cain, who was afraid?
(Genesis 4:14)
Someone says that there must have been many people on earth, in addition to the descendants of Adam and Eve, otherwise Cain would not have been afraid that someone wanted to kill him because he killed Abel.
First of all, the most likely reason why someone wanted to harm Cain for killing Abel must have been because they were close relatives of Abel!
Second, Cain and Abel were born quite a lot 'of time before the death of Abel. Genesis 4:3 dice:
“it happened, after some time, that Cain brought an offering of the fruits of the earth to the Lord”.
Notice the expression: “after some time”. We know that Seth was born when Adam was the age of 130 years (Genesis 5:4) and Eve saw him as a replacement for Abel (Genesis 4:25). therefore, the period of time elapsed since the birth of Cain to Abel's death may have been a 100 years or more, allowing plenty of time for other children of Adam and Eve to marry and have children. Before the time Abel was killed, there may have been a considerable number of descendants of Adam and Eve, involving several generations.
Where Did the Technology?
Some claim that for Cain to go to the land of Nod and build a city, He should have had considerable existing technological resources in that place, presumably developed by other “races”.
But the descendants of Adam and Eve were very intelligent people. We are told that Jubal made musical instruments such as the harp and organ (Genesis 4:21), and Tubal-Cain worked with brass and iron (Genesis 4:22).
Because of intense evolutionary indoctrination, many people today have the idea that their generation is the most advanced ever existed on this planet. But the fact that we have jet airplanes and computers does not mean that we are smarter or more advanced. This modern technology is really a result of the accumulation of knowledge over the centuries.
We must remember that for 6.000 years (since the time of Adam) our brain has suffered the effects of curse. We are greatly degenerated compared to so many generations of people do. Probably our intelligence is absolutely not comparable to that of the children of Adam and Eve. The Scripture gives us a glimpse of what appears to have been an advanced technology from the beginning. Cain had no doubt the wisdom and skill to know how to build a city.
Copyright Answers in Genesis http://www.answeringenesis.org/
Thanks for your comment, which I respect but do not approve of.
Yours are just assumptions not proven by science. They are scientific theories, so what you say amounts to "philosophy".
You can't even tell a Christian that what the Bible says is unscientific until science proves it empirically that it is unscientific..
the Bible is not an explanation for the fearful but the Word of God. And this concept cannot be denied.
I reiterate GENESIS in the Bible as an explanation of the creation of the world, dlel'universo e della vita.
ChristianFaith,
So you believe that man (Adamo) was created approx 6000 years ago the same as we are
us now ?
Roberto45,
Absolutely yes. You want to know why? Because there is no EMPIRICAL scientific evidence to the contrary and there never will be! Theory? It's not evidence. We want to argue because I believe this? Me and all Christians? Everyone believes what they want, What do you care? I don't understand so much dismay and controversy. And I don't like controversy or questions on the subject since it has already been treated extensively here, I have no time to lose.
Excuse me if I take the liberty of intervening.
Please don't get angry.
May I then ask what older Homo Sapiens fossils represent for you’ of 90000 years found right in Israel.
( you will not deny I hope they have ever been found, and that they are of men like us).
Of course I deny it! This is not empirical science, they are just guesses! There will be fossils, but they are not human beings. I only believe in proven science, not in theories. The truth about human beings is that which dates back to the discovery of objects, writing, civilization, etc… and everything dates back to a few millennia before Christ, with what history says, the first Mesopotamian civilizations, the Egyptians, etc… the first things are just guesses.
Please read (if you have a moment of time) the article at this link
http://www.museoferrara.unife.it/reperti_preistoria/HOMO_SAPIENS_ARCAICO.htm
they are not fossil evidence of very ancient human beings? tell me if you want what you think ,
maybe you might want to read something other than the Bible from time to time.
ChristianFaith,
Roberto45,
The arrogance of atheists knows no bounds, I've always said that! What makes you think I only read the Bible??? What makes you think I'm ignorant of science and archaeology?? I inform you that before becoming a Christian 10 years ago I was a convinced atheist, home collections courses in astronomy and astrophysics… biology is one of my favorite subjects and I know history perfectly, archeology and atheistic arguments about the origin of life. So I say to you who believe you have the truth and you are right: read a bit’ of the Bible and learn about what you don't know, maybe you want to read up on these things instead of assuming they are false. That's why I have no intention of arguing with atheists, there is no discussion, it's not that I get mad, but I'm fed up with these arrogant speeches of those who think they know and know when they know nothing.
PS: and for your information I'm not ignorant,I'm graduated!!!
Sorry but I didn't mean to offend you .
I'm not a graduate and I don't think I know everything but I try to find out about scientific discoveries.
I just wanted to know your opinion
on that article (if you have had the time and inclination to read it) .
They are all lies?
They are not fossils of human beings?
What else
ChristianFaith,
Roberto45,
Sorry I don't have time to waste, I already answered you, if it suits you well otherwise it is fine too. I'm tired of always answering the same controversies and questions asked not to try to understand our point of view but to try to convince us otherwise (I don't see what comes into your pocket), I've already said. Kindly I have already answered you, keep believing what you want, for me it is the same, I live the same, and you should experience the same too. Bye bye!
ok !
thank you for the time you gave me, I won't bother you’ more’
Bye bye!
ChristianFaith,
The discovery of human skeletons identical to ours for you are only guesses ???
Before civilizations’ which you mention not
man existed ???
ChristianFaith,
Exactly! They are not identical to our otherwise science (if, by science I do not mean the affirmation of some scientists) he would make proven claims and not just state theories. They are not identical.
No, it didn't exist. Maybe it existed a few thousand years before that time but not millions of years!
Good, Now that I've answered what we want to do? Keep saying you one thing and I another? So your intent is to convince me? You will never succeed since I have in-depth knowledge and before stating certain things I investigate! Everyone thinks what they want, if I think this shouldn't create problems for you, what interests you? I don't care that you or anyone else thinks we existed millions of years ago because I don't believe it.
You deny the evidence of hard evidence and you don't believe in science , but’ believe in a book written by no one knows who, full of contradictions, incestuous killers, bloody revenge and atrocious punishments.
OK ! As you said, everyone can’ think as he pleases.
(I would like to know where you investigated to state certain things).
ChristianFaith,
I fully believe in PROVEN science, but not in theories!! I would be silly if I denied scientific evidence! In any case, you're here not knowing the Bible, which for me is the infallible and exact Word of God and which goes hand in hand with empirical science. It can be seen from the statements you made. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a lot to do and it's useless to carry on this conversation, where YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT AND CONVINCE ME (HERE ON MY SITE).
Roberto45,
If you know English… http://creation.com/ it is a site maintained by hundreds of scientists (paleontology, genetisti, biology, astrophysicists, physical, etc., who defend Creation and what is written in the Bible that goes hand in hand with exact science. They are SCIENTISTS!!! So as you see, if the world of scientists is divided in two it is not that evolution is a truth, it is simply a theory like that of creation. We're on the same boat.
Come si spiega quest'orribile, terrible earthquake in Haiti? If one believes in an omnipotent and omniscient God it is clear that he must be held responsible for what happened and what is happening in that poor country. If God created all things beautiful, he is also the creator of all bad things, horrendous, monstrous. God shook the earth in Port-au-prince. God made to die beyond 100 000 people – 100 000 some of the poorest people in the world.
I don't know about you, but to me whoever says that the God he believes in is a benevolent being makes me nauseous. È egocentrismo all'ennesima potenza, it is self-indulgence and racism. "God is good," what a bullshit. He will have been good to you, that you live in a western country, will have been good to your family…
Quello che è certo è che Dio è stato infinitamente spietato in quell'isola abitata da gente umile e credente.
The Romans and the Greeks were right: the gods are unpredictable and capricious, not at all benevolent.
Dio ha creato un mondo dove non c'erano ingiustizia, death and suffering. The guilt of death and suffering, it will seem strange to you, è proprio dell'uomo, born in sin. We are all sinners, anyone, even the innocent. If you don't know the concept of sin you cannot understand.
God is good and merciful, non c'entra con quelloche succede, even if he can intervene and all the time he does it behind prayer, but we are in the end times and these things have been written from the beginning, e siamo solo all'inizio della tribolazione. The world is going to hell! And so it should be, prima che tornerà Gesù Cristo Salvatore a giudicare l'umanità.
If you believe I've always been lucky, nothing bad ever happened to me, you are wrong, You do not know me,I live every day and am tested, but the faith of true believers, The chosen ones, it goes beyond earthly life, faith is faith in God, a God you can hate and who will one day pay you back tit for tat for your disbelief and your attachment to this passing life.
I thank you dearly for the unearthly sentence you have just indirectly inflicted on me (Oh well, Yup, I understand, is not you, it is God who judges me).
Follow this reasoning:
A man is born. Once born he is not God, but it is other men who teach him religion, to tell him the words of God. These men, in turn, they know these things because other men have taught them to them. And who explained to us that the bible is the word of God? Be', always men, with their flaws and their strengths. None of us learned the bible extraterrestally (if not the authors, for what they tell us).
Con ciò intendo dire che c'è una macroscopica falla sillogica: men sin, they make mistakes, they are not reliable… eppure loro sono l'unica fonte che lo stesso Dio ci ha fornito per riuscire ad arrivare a Sé.
God claims to be recognized and venerated by beings who have no way of reaching him except through anthropological means – which by definition is sinful, erratic and unreliable. Quite an ambitious claim, do not you think? An ambitious and perverse claim, because by entrusting ourselves to other men (and it's our only option) we know we could be duped and run out, in good faith, to believe in untrue things.
These few lines irrefutably dismantle Christianity. O almeno smontano il cristianesimo che crede nel libero arbitrio e che non crede nella predestinazione dell'anima.
You are greatly mistaken, you know nothing about God and you don't know how He gives you faith and how He works.
We do not come to Him through men, but it is he himself who calls us to himself. Faith cannot be inculcated anthropologically. Men can give us their theologies, which most of the time are wrong. Faith is found through the Bible, the Word of God unchanged and eternal, written by 40 different men, of each social class, at different times and in different areas very distant from each other. The books of the Bible that have been found have a common thread with the other books, no author knew of the existence of other books, but yet, the Bible speaks of the divine message without ever being in conflict with another author and another book. There are non-biblical archaeological and historical sources which confirm this. This is the Bible, survived for centuries and centuries and remained unchanged. Last confirms the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, which have given further confirmation and archaeological proof of the immutability of the ancient Bible until today. The 98% of the written Greek corresponds to our more modern translations. The Bible was written by men chosen by God and inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is God himself who speaks through the Bible and tells us that it is the Word of God.
I told you this, I tell you: I was raised Catholic, in fact I never had true faith because it was a faith taught by humans, As an adult, I was prompted to read the Bible, by what is called the Holy Spirit (God called me and give me faith) and through reading, I understood and found answers to my logical questions, I understood that the Bible does not contradict itself in any point, and this I understood with the in-depth self-taught study over the years. I don't attend any church, although I am a Protestant. What I understood I understood with my intelligence and with God's help, alone! So here I make it clear to you that faith is true, what the Bible talks about, it is not faith taught by men but only by God. Never heard of the gift of faith? It is a gift from God, not of men. He wants men to teach if God does not manifest himself to the person. The faith of people brought up religiously is not true faith, it is not the faith God requires to save you, it is a superficial facade of faith, it is not faith and is equivalent to having no faith. Of course not?
Then I tell you that I am not ignorant, I have a degree in foreign languages and literature, I know what philology is, I know the ancient languages, I know how languages and cultures evolve, i know the story, I know the subject of anthropology perfectly, and I know how books are preserved and come down to us over the centuries. I tell you this in case it occurred to you that I was ignorant because I believe the Bible and have faith.
Now we come to the last point, that of the predestination of souls. I strongly believe in this point, I deny the free will of sinful man who is not capable of saving himself if God does not decide it and has not elected you to salvation. God does not need man in his almighty plan of salvation. I his drawing if he does it himself. How can one believe in the free will of imperfect man? The Bible doesn't say that, the Bible talks about the slavery of unfree will. The why of all this? Only He knows. Know the why to life? Know the answers to existential questions, of course not, it's all illogical, we just have to accept and one day we will know the answer in another life.
THE PREDESTIATION: God chooses you from the beginning according to his plan, then he calls you to faith through the Holy Spirit and saves you through the blood of Christ.
But we must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, for God from the BEGINNING has ELECTED you TO SALVATION through sanctification in the Spirit and faith in the truth. (2Tessalonicesi 2:13)
Now we know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, which are CHIANATED ACCORDING TO HIS DESIGN. Because those he foreknew, li ha pure predestinati a essere conformi all'immagine del Figlio suo, that he may be the firstborn among many brothers; and THOSE WHOM HE PREDESTINED THEM HE ALSO CALLED; and those whom he called he also JUSTIFIED; and those he justified he also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30)
Having predestined us in his love to be adopted through Jesus Christ as his children, according to the BENEVOLENT DESIGN OF HIS WILL. (Ephesians 1:5)
In him we have also been made heirs, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who does everything according to the decision of his own will. (Ephesians 1:11)
The Bible is full of explanations concerning the sovereignty of God who decides, as he decided in Genesis by choosing Abel instead of Cain, how he decided to choose Israel among all the peoples making them God's chosen people , what has he decided for each of our souls.
Indeed the Jews will be saved for this, not through christ like us gentiles, but through the inheritance they bring as the people of God:
Indeed, brothers, I don't want you to ignore this mystery, lest you be presumptuous: un indurimento si è prodotto in una parte d'Israele, until all the foreigners have entered;and all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion. Romans 11:25-26
Now as we know who are the elect? Anyone who has had the call to faith knows this, those who have true faith know that they are chosen by God because they have had communion with Him and always have. Others complaining about? Do you believe in God?No. Then you have nothing to lose, you don't even realize you're not elected and you live your momentary material life. Throughout your life you will never know if you are a chosen one until you have the inner calling. The elect rejoice for themselves but are sad for the non-elect who cannot open their eyes. But we must accept God's will, if I think of how many loved ones I have close to me who have not been elected to the faith. We don't know who they are, only the elect knows it in his heart and God knows it. I can tell you that they are, because God keeps his promises and his words, but for others only God knows their hearts and their faith. This is why I say that I do not judge you and I do not condemn you, only God can do it and if he wants to have mercy only He knows. Who are we sinners to say that almighty and creator God is wrong and chooses his elect by being partial? Nobody, He can decide what he wants, it may not even save anyone, yet He has chosen some who will go to live with Him in heaven. I rejoice in his goodness.
Why do we evangelize if God has already decided? Because God has commanded us to, it is the means by which He calls the elect. There are several ways to convert but the result is always the same.
I sincerely wish you to find authentic faith, because even if you don't want it now and you hate my God, if He had ever decided that you are among the elect, you can never do anything to avoid it: one day he will "call" you to himself and you will not be able to do anything but prostrate yourself before the one and only almighty God. Man cannot decide whether to accept it or not, man has no free will in this, man can only accept the sovereignty of God and his decisions. Amen!
C'è un secondo e forse più complesso sillogismo che nega la bontà di Dio. It is not a dialectical trick and is as far from a simple philosophical speculation as possible.
You will draw your own conclusions, but it is not possible to avoid a comparison with the following reasoning:
God is omniscient and omnipotent. God is aware of every past action, present and future. God is responsible for every past action, present and future.
It gave, prima della creazione dell'universo era a conoscenza di ogni azione che sarebbe stata fatta in futuro, aware of every decision. God in creating Adam, and then in creating Eve, he was fully aware of the decisions they would make. Dio ha deliberatamente creato quell'Adamo e quella Eva, knowing full well that it would condemn them to a life of suffering. Of all the Adams and Eves he was able to create, Dio ha scelto proprio quelli che avrebbero mangiato il frutto dell'albero proibito. There is no free will if your creator knows your actions in advance and decides to create you to make you perform the actions that he himself knew you would perform.
Pause.
After this ineluctable reasoning the creator turns out to be ruthless. Every creature not "chosen" is doomed to suffer eternally from an original sin caused by God Himself.* Poor humans who were not chosen by Him seem to be predestined victims to satisfy the need for confrontation of the "elect" necessary to feel like one. Such a scheme, in my opinion, it is nothing but macabre and despicable.
I challenge you to find a single flaw in the reasoning. L'unica maniera per farlo crollare è rimuovere una delle due caratteristiche fondamentali di Dio: l'onniscienza e l'onnipotenza.
*It is not possible to argue that the choices were made by Adam and Eve following the generous gift of free will, because God, giving it, knew in advance how they would use it. God still decided to create them that way, of all the ways he could choose – which are infinite.
http://lamiafede.blogspot.com/2015/01/la-responsabilita-di-adamo.html
Non c'è niente di razionale nella risposta che dà questo post. It starts with a correct thesis, la confonde e poi arriva alla soluzione a cui voleva arrivare sin dall'inizio.
He basically says: "It is true that God knew from the beginning that Adam would sin, But, not having told him and God acting in mysterious ways, Adamo è l'unico responsabile della faccenda."
"It works in mysterious ways" is now a magic formula to justify every absurdity preached.
You say you are cultured, maybe even smart, yet it amazes me that a cultured and intelligent person could not have problems with such a botched answer to a fundamental problem for their faith.
An intellectually correct individual owes himself a deeper criticism of his beliefs, that they are religious, political or scientific.
Dio era consapevole sin dall'inizio che creando Adamo e donandogli il libero arbitrio, without giving him any other information about his plan, Adam would have acted as he did. And he created it himself. He could have created another Adam. An Adam who does not sin despite having free will. God is omnipotent, he could have created it. Invece ha deciso di creare l'Adamo con il libero arbitrio che aveva nel proprio futuro questo nefasto epilogo.
C'è un problema di comunicazione perchè non hai avuto il dono della fede e te lo ribadisco, even if it is difficult for you to understand it.
If God doesn't enlighten you, said in a nutshell, all this will seem absurd to you and you will try to give logical answers about God, sul perchè l'ha fatto e su che senso ha tutto questo. Your limited human mind is unable to provide you with logical answers.
Only when God touches your heart do you understand everything quickly and everything is clear to you.
Il discorso del mio ultimo post a me fila liscio come l'olio. I would never dare to question God, his goodness and all, precisely because He manifested Himself to me. If you know a person, you know her well, you would never dare to say that person doesn't exist, right? The same is for believers who know God.
But I stop here, because i know, just, that you cannot understand my speech to the end.
God show you the way.
See you soon.
The story of the Big Bang, of the primordial soup, of the dinosaurs, of the first mammals, of hominids and the first civilized societies is absolutely not credible, huh? Because as an explanation it is quite complete, leaves no holes or gaps. Perhaps it is not as interesting for possible adaptations in soap operas, but it satisfies curious minds.
The only frontal attack could be: and before the big bang what was there? The answer, according to some scientists it is: another universe before it collapsed into a large nebulous mass – and it will be like this forever. If so, who created matter? Be’, there always has been.
God does not escape the same question.
Between the perennial existence of simple substance and the perennial existence of an infinitely complex higher being I think it is, however unreasonable for our brain, more sensible to accept the former.
Leaves no holes or gaps? But if it's all a gap! Look, the Big Bang theory can also be true as there was a Creation and no one knows by whom… who knows if there isn't a creator behind it (this is the theory of creationist scientists), the story of dinosaurs and the first animals is absolutely true (first animals and then man as Genesis also says) the first civilizations obvious that they are true, they weren't as civilized as we are now… but the primordial broth but please! You are wrong to believe that Christians are not curious, for years and years I have been an atheist fervent supporter of science, and they still are, but only when it comes to exact sciences and not airborne theories. Science and faith go hand in hand because the first is none other than the EXPLANATION OF CREATION.
I see you don't even know what you're talking about, you've never read Genesis, if you read it you would know that there are many affinities between the Bible and science.
Thanks for your comment, I respect your point of view.
Arrived now now.
Of course I haven't read Genesis, and I hope few people do. As I hope that few people are sucked into that maelstrom of violence, incestuousness and unjustified anger that is the old testament – you cannot argue here because if you did you would reveal ignorance on the matter. Reading the blog, I'd say you're not just a creationist, you are christian, with all the consequences that it entails, and you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God like everyone else who goes to mass on Sunday. Have you ever wondered why a benevolent Lord, omniscient and omnipotent continues to give birth to children with very serious physical and/or mental deficiencies? What did those poor beings do before they were even born? Because they are condemned by an Entity, which could very well have been avoided, to live a life full of pain and suffering? I wonder why believers don't ask. Yup: God is great, it is good for everyone, yet he has decided that some must be tortured forever. It's all part of his inscrutable plan, vero? You will bring up original sin by saying that we chose this sad fate… But God made Adam and Eve knowing full well what was going to happen – otherwise omniscience would be lost.
Every single killer, every single rapist, every single dictator, every single pervert on this planet was spawned by Your Lord – according to your creed -, he is directly responsible, for better or for worse. Observing the situation from a distance, you can only conclude two things: or it is not benevolent, or he is impotent.
Eri Atea?
And then they say that a chrysalis cannot become a bug again.
I'm tired of repeating the same things over and over to people like you who criticize and think they know everything.
1) I'm Christian yes, but Christian does not mean Catholic, I am evangelical, I have nothing to do with the history of the church, torture him, heresies and company.
2) The VT has nothing to do with the New, because from the moment Jesus arrived, grace arrived, forgiveness, the comprehension.
3) Yes original sin: God created Adam in his image and likeness and did not know if he would betray him (because he was like HIM). Then what I think you know happened, and since then we are all sinners.
4) material life is of no importance, it is the eternal one that counts.
God loves us yes,he loves everyone but will only save believers, and rightly so, whoever does not fall into this group is just that he will not have eternal life, it will no longer exist (that means the Bible). He gave us free will, what's his fault if you don't want to believe? None.
Then think what you want, the frustrated are the atheists, see how you get nervous? Charges? You talk about injustice and sickness? Do you think I suffer from it? but the fault is not God's, he helps those who ask for help (I confirm this on my skin and the skin of my loved ones, other believers also confirm this, it can heal diseases and doctors don't understand). I am very calm, I have my answers and my balances, instead you come here to annoy believing you know everything and to cast doubts, but faith my dear, it is something you cannot understand with reason, it is a voice that speaks to you within and calls you to itself and blessed are those who are called.
Peace to your soul!
I answer in order:
1) I didn't say you are Catholic. You are a Christian and believe that Christ is your savior. This is theism, point.
2) The VT (what do you call it) it is still part of the Bible, and you believe what he says because Jesus did too.
3)God created Adam in his image and likeness, but Adam was not endowed with the same powers and/or knowledge, otherwise God could not have relegated him to earth.
4)Material life is all we have, thank goodness. I don't even want to imagine what an eternity of prayer in heaven could be like, I'd rather be eaten by rats.
I hate with all my heart to backfire on other people's weapons, but you seem to be the giver of truth, the saputella. I ask questions. I am indignant, I don't get nervous. You should too, it is not honest to think that your life is peaceful because the prayers you say in the evening are better than others. Millions of people pray with your same sincerity, yet many of them suffer in a way incomprehensible to you.
I do not claim to know what the meaning of these is 70, at most 80 years of breaths and heartbeats, and you too should avoid.
There is a very close link between VT and NT, I don't believe it just because Jesus believed it, but the NT is the continuation of God's story of the OT, there is a logical explanation to the fact that first God could seem vengeful and then, with Jesus, his attitude has changed. But I don't feel like explaining it to you because I don't have the time or desire. I explain things to those who ask to know, you are not asking questions, you give yourself the answers and you came here to be indignant, as you said.
If people who believe pray and are not heard or do not pray to God (then others such as saints and madonnas)or they don't have pure faith when they pray, that is, they turn to the creator only out of need, not caring when all goes well. I'm not saying this but the Bible.
I believe in what I believe, it's my business, I'm fine like this, I have logical reasons, and I say logic. I unlike you, I don't criticize without knowing both versions, you have not read the Bible and if you allow, I don't feel like arguing with you because you're not up to it. I have studied both sciences and have excellent knowledge of astronomy, physics and biology, that of the Bible.
Having said that choudo here. sorry to sound snobbish, but sometimes it's the only way to get out of a non-constructive discussion that would never end when one party doesn't seem to want to listen to other bells.
Matteo, your atrocities are paralogisms and logomachie that have a self-evident explanation through the words of St. Augustine.
Read carefully so that you can repent.
If man were not free, then he would have neither merits, nor faults. The problem that arises with this statement is whether there is free will or predestination, problem that arose as a result of original sin:
It gave, who is omniscient and knows the future, ha dato piena libertà all'uomo, but he knows that, leaving him free, he will sin. God might even step in to stop them, but it doesn't (free will).
L'uomo, thus sinning, committed the original sin, with which he compromised his freedom, turning it against itself. Although he has become unworthy to receive salvation, It gave, knowing his possible choices towards evil or towards good, give to some, with grace, the chance to be saved, while others leave the freedom to damn themselves; however, this is not an arbitrary divine choice, but it is simply the foreknowledge of God that, nell'eternità (i.e. beyond time), he sees those who can receive grace and those who cannot. The latter, even if they received it, not only would not be saved, but they would damage themselves even more. therefore, for Augustine, la volontà di Dio precorre semplicemente la volontà dell'uomo, does not force it, poiché tale nostra volontà è l'unica davvero che ci renda meritevoli della salvezza o della dannazione; indeed, though no man could be saved by his own will alone, those who could be saved are helped by divine grace, which helps them in their preparation. This concept is explained in Christ's evangelical response to his disciples, that they had asked:
« "Who, then, will be able to be saved?". And Jesus, staring at them, said: "This is impossible for men, but with God everything is possible." » (Matteo 19,25-26)
Sarebbe d'altronde impossibile indagare le ragioni per cui Dio interviene a favore di alcuni e non di altri, because we have no qualifications to criticize God. Augustine refers in this regard to the words of Paul of Tarsus: “O man, who are you to argue with God? Will he perhaps dare to say the molded vessel to the one who molded it: "Why did you make me like this?". Forse il vasaio non è padrone dell'argilla, to make a vase for noble use and one for vulgar use with the same paste?».
Thank you for these very well written and truthful comments. Però c'è una cosa che sbagli dal ,my point of view.
Predestination means that it was God who elected and predestined to future salvation, l'uomo, since he is in original sin he is unable to save himself. What do you mean? In the sense that he is unable to approach God unless He puts his Spirit within Him first. And in fact when the conversion takes place, it's not because some of us are better than others and figure out for ourselves that we need to get closer to God, but it was God himself who initiated this process according to his initial plan, which he will then accomplish with the justification and glorification of the believer.
Indeed, if you notice, it makes no sense to say that God foreknew and chose those who would believe in Him, ma se abbiamo appena detto che l'uomo è sotto il peccato originale? How does he alone invoke God under his sin?
La salvezza dipende da Dio dall'inizio alla fine, for if we were to trust in our good intention to follow him we would all be damned.
God says:
Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion".
This means that He does as He pleases and decides to have mercy on the basis of His divine designs.
If Ephesians 2:8-9 dice:
For by grace you have been saved, by fede; and that not of yourselves:; it is the gift of God. It is not by works, lest any man should boast.
It means that faith is a gift from God, (reflect!) and if it is a gift from God, it was He who gave us faith. The works are our intentions and skills, e anche dire di essere cosi spirituali da avvicinarci a Lui è un'opera che dà la bravura ad un credente piuttosto che ad un altro! What's the point of saying that we initially approach him by invoking him and then he gives us faith? If we hadn't already received faith we couldn't invoke him in prayer. This also justifies the fact that many do not call him in prayer throughout their lives and it is because he did not elect them..
Election means choosing, and as Spurgeon said:
"If there are people in the Bible called the elect, there must be an election!"
"Echoing knows salvation" it means choosing for salvation:
But we must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God from the beginning elected you to salvation through sanctification in the Spirit and faith in the truth. (2Tessalonicesi 2:13)
Giving it other meanings is nonsensical with everything else in the Bible and detracts from God's sovereignty, che non ha certo bisogno delle opere dell'uomo per completare il suo piano.
Del resto Dio ha sempre scelto dall'AT al NT, he chose Abel over Cain, he chose the people of Israel, he chose his prophets, he chose the apostles, he chose Paul (che come sai non l'aveva invocato, therefore he was not predisposed to faith, but it was God who claimed him as his chosen one) and still today, as the Bible says, he calls his elect to himself.
E' God who does and decides everything, we can do nothing, nor do we have the spiritual and free faculty to seek it.
Our free choices concern only our daily actions but not our spiritual ones, as incompetent and atheist by nature, because they are far from God since original sin.
Read here:
http://www.veritadellabibbia.it/teologia/sovranita.html
http://www.veritadellabibbia.it/2015/01/dove-finisce-il-libero-arbitrio.html
http://www.veritadellabibbia.it/2015/01/la-responsabilita-di-adamo.html
http://www.veritadellabibbia.it/2015/08/come-faccio-ad-avere-la-certezza-della.html
1)We are religious and superstitious by nature, not atheists. We have been attributing every natural event to divine beings for millennia.
2)Our daily choices influence all other events. We live for the little things, and with them we modify the big ones.
3)To Anonymous: it's a crazy paraculate to say that we are not given to know god's intentions (Yup, lowercase). Such an approach can justify any stupidity. Only incurious people are satisfied with such an explanation.
4)god created everything, knowing in advance how this will all end. He knows all the details – all actions performed, that are fulfilled and will be fulfilled. Before creating a person, god knows what that person will do in life. If god gives birth to a future pedophile, dictator, killer, terrorist is directly responsible for the actions of this pedophile, dictator, killer, terrorist. Because? because in its place he could have created anyone else. He is omnipotent, no? Or is it bound?
L'esempio del vaso è piuttosto stupido (stupidity is not an exclusively contemporary quality). It only takes into account the single subject. Non tocca per un attimo l'interazione umana, on which everything around us depends. I would change the story like this:
the vase asks the potter: "Because you made me in this shape and in asbestos? the shape could also pass, it's unusual, ma l'amianto mi rende pericoloso per chi mi sta vicino."
There are only two answers. 1- the potter did it intentionally. 2- the potter had no other material available.
In the first case the potter is a psychopath. In the second he is certainly not omnipotent.
Giancarlo.
sure, sono completamente d'accordo, il mio intervento voleva essere d'auspicio per un'interpretazione veritiera a riguardo.
" though no man could be saved by his own will alone, those who could be saved are helped by divine grace, which helps them in their preparation. This concept is explained in Christ's evangelical response to his disciples, that they had asked:
« "Who, then, will be able to be saved?". And Jesus, staring at them, said: "This is impossible for men, but with God everything is possible." » "
I personally believe that trying to understand God's sortings and how they happen is not within our competence and we don't even have the intellectual capacity to do it. Credo che l'espressione usata " la volontà di Dio ripercorre la volontà dell'uomo e chiunque possa salvarsi viene soccorso dalla Grazia " that's exactly what it means.
It is essential to believe in Jesus primarily with the heart, reason can help us understand His teachings and lead us to God(after His revelation). Ma anche prima che Egli si fosse rivelato l'accezione di Dio non era impervia, it could be understood, but do not ascertain, a Revelation of his was precisely necessary.
" Then Paul, alzatosi in mezzo all'Areopago, said: "Athenian citizens, I see that in everything you are very fearful of the gods.
Passing indeed and observing the monuments of your cult, ho trovato anche un'ara con l'iscrizione: To the unknown God. What you adore without knowing, I announce it to you.
The God who made the world and everything in it, who is lord of heaven and earth, non dimora in templi costruiti dalle mani dell'uomo
né dalle mani dell'uomo si lascia servire come se avesse bisogno di qualche cosa, it being he who gives life and breath and everything to all.
He made from one blood every nation of men, to dwell on all the face of the earth. Per essi ha stabilito l'ordine dei tempi e i confini del loro spazio,
to seek God, if they ever get to find it by groping, although it is not far from each of us.
In fact we live in him, we move and exist, as even some of your poets have said: Because of his lineage we are.
We are therefore the offspring of God, non dobbiamo pensare che la divinità sia simile all'oro, all'argento e alla pietra, che porti l'impronta dell'arte e dell'immaginazione umana.
Dopo esser passato sopra ai tempi dell'ignoranza, now God commands all men everywhere to repent,
for he has set a day in which he shall judge the earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, giving sure proof to all by raising him from the dead". "(Act of the Apostles Chap 17).
So let's pray to Jesus!
"I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me" (Teacher. 14:6).
"Enter through the narrow door, for wide is the gate and wide the way that leads to perdition, and many are those who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life! And few are those who find it!" (Mt. 7:14)
«I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst, May! But I told you that you saw me, yet you do not believe.
All that the Father gives me, will come to me: the one who comes to me, I won't kick him out, because I came down from heaven not to do my will, but the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me: that I lose nothing that he has given me, but resurrect him on the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that whoever sees the Son and believes in him has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (Teacher 6,35-40)
sandro.santucci@yahoo.it
Since we live in a society which from our early youth tries to instill in us vices and turpitudes such as distrust, here is a link where irrefutable evidence is given on the correctness of what the Bible says (si parla dell'eclisse; of Einstein's formula of relativity; of plant species; del nome di Gesù nell'Antico Testamento che compare in sequenze equidistanti; about how Abraham's rib is a mistranslation and so many other things).
http://www.youtube.com/danilovalla
Hoping it can help you repent, or to reinvigorate your Faith.
sandro.santucci@yahoo.it
Dear Giancarlo:
First, absolutely do not dare to say that "he who is satisfied with such explanations does not have an inquisitive mind" implying that whoever has faith is ignorant! Perhaps you will be ignorant, why don't you know that each of us who believes in the God of Abraham of the Bible, she got to know him through holy communion with him, cosa che tu non puoi capire perchè non l'hai avuta. Each of us knows the scientific facts (that are not against what the Bible says!) and each of us may or may not have a college degree (like in my case). Furthermore, paleontologists are among the hundreds of creationist scientists in the world, genetisti, biology, astronomy, physical, etc. etc… who believe in creation. Life does not arise from nothing, but always from life itself. If it is so, vuol dire che c'è qualcosa che non va negli altri scienziati che non ci credono, as a scientific truth to be accepted must be objective and accepted by all. Gossip and dogmatic atheistic theories (perchè l'ateismo è una fede arrogante senza prove scientifiche!), let us leave them to those whose minds are limited to material facts and cannot see beyond. who sees here and there is certainly a "richer" person.
Second, "Atheists by nature" they are those who do not know Jesus Christ the Savior, only one who can save this world. Altri dèi inventati nell'antichità sono falsi dei dietro ai quali si possono nascondere solo Satana e i suoi servitori, visto che al mondo c'è un solo Dio. And it's proven, even if the Bible says so and I don't quote it since you don't believe it, that most people are atheists unable to get close to God. By atheist that's what I meant. Although perhaps the word is not spot on because an atheist is one who lives without God, false or true that it wants to be.
Each of us who believes does not believe by his choice and his will, but it was God who chose us from among many and called us to himself through his Spirit, in the midst of our godless and anti-God life, as I was before the call! And as they all were!
And finally for you:
For the preaching of the cross is MADNESS FOR THOSE WHO PERISH, but for us, that we are saved, it is the power of God; indeed it is written: "I'LL DO' PERIRE LA SAPIENZA DEI SAGGI e annienterò l'intelligenza degli intelligenti». Dov'è il sapiente? Dov'è lo scriba? Dov'è il CONTESTATORE di questo secolo? Has not God made mad the wisdom of this world? For THE WORLD HAS NOT KNOWN GOD BY HIS WISDOM, it pleased God, in his wisdom, to save believers with the foolishness of preaching.(1Corinthians 1:18-21)
And the fact that you don't want to believe is because God hardened your heart like He did Pharaoh:
So then neither by those who want or exertion, but of God who shows mercy. The Scripture in fact tells the pharaoh: «Precisely for this reason I have aroused you: to show my power in you and so that my name may be proclaimed throughout the earth ". So then he gives mercy to whomever he wills and hardens whomever he wills. (Romans 9:16-18)
You are a sinner in need of salvation and you don't realize it: here lies the difference between the believer and the non-believer! Continua pure a confidare nelle capacità fallibili e finite dell'essere umano, I trust in God!
If these words shake something in you, in your conscience, you can always turn to God for the gift of faith, which it will do from the moment you sincerely seek it. If these words do not shake anything, consider yourself an enemy of God and as such not worthy of his benevolence and salvation and therefore you will account for your unbelief on the day of judgment, on the day of the return of our Lord Jesus.
e lilith? it's not lilith la “first woman”??
Lilith was not the first woman, he was simply a demon according to Mesopotamian mythology. Also mentioned in the Bible as a negative spirit (of Satan's fallen angels), it has nothing to do with the first men on earth.
never thought that in the end she is trying to defend a book that ,to be pure important, it was fictionalized and interpreted at will?
Absolutely no! I thought so until 4 years ago when, is the door, I had never read the sacred text but I had only criticized it as the vast majority of people do without even reading it and inquiring well about its veracity.
There is evidence in favor of the Bible there is biblical archeology that confirms it, the largest discovery is the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran in 1948 with hundreds of old and new testament papyri in a jar, which compared to our copies today, results in an accuracy of more than 98%. It hasn't been changed, confirm that it is the Word of God.
Then because I believe it? Because no other sacred text that exists, no other religion that has ever existed on the face of the earth speaks of a God who makes promises and keeps them, makes prophecies and they come true. In the Old Testament the prophets made hundreds of prophecies which then came true about the Messiah many centuries later. Jesus made as many prophecies that are coming true today. And he will return for universal judgment as he promised. But people don't know this because they don't read the Bible, if only he would read it he would stop bringing false accusations to her.
Aphrodite, Zeus, Astarte and Pinco Pallino, Chatter, beautiful and fascinating cultures but only mythology, come on just compare them to the Bible.
If it hadn't been true that the apostles had seen Christ resurrected they certainly wouldn't have died persecuted for nothing by the Romans, they allegedly confessed under torture that they were lying about the messiah, yet they for their authentic faith have not betrayed their master and neither will we Christians today, because we are waiting for his return which will happen, because there is no prophecy that has not come true in the Bible.
The Bible has passed, present and future.
Greetings
"Gossip and dogmatic atheistic theories (perchè l'ateismo è una fede arrogante senza prove scientifiche!), let us leave them to those whose minds are limited to material facts and cannot see beyond.
Anyone who sees beyond is commonly defined as schizophrenic.
Giancarlo.
You are comparing faith to schizophrenia? This shows your ignorance of both faith and psychiatry.
Vedere l'oltre non è inteso come avere visioni, live under other personalities (this is schizophrenia, learn!) but "see" and be sure of one thing you don't know, because bigger than you and maybe, right to you, it was not given to know, and because your mind is limited to what you see with your eyes. But we humans, unlike animals, we have very strong feelings, abbiamo il senso del'eterno, abbiamo un'anima, we cannot control our impulses with reason (see jealousy, anger, l'amore, they are all human feelings). Animals have feelings not related to self or pride, like humans, ma solo all'istinto della sovravvivenza, to hunger. A big difference you don't think about.
The fact that something is not proven does not mean that it does not exist because to affirm that it does not exist you have to prove that it does not exist. So until then your atheism is a dogmatic faith. Del resto confidare nell'uomo è limitato, it all depends on his findings and it takes some time. A thousand years ago they would have even said you couldn't fly, yet last century airplanes were invented! Tu continua a confidare nell'uomo, and then you are forced to retract what you say, as what human beings say is fleeting and subject to change over time.
Then half the world should be schizophrenic according to what you say. Or maybe they are those who "can't see and perceive" things that actually exist?
Of course not, you have the truth, you are sure of what you say even though you don't know it, and this is true arrogance.
Just because you're here arguing means something: you deny God because you wish it were, but if you were convinced you wouldn't even feel the need to confront believers and come to their sites to discuss, because if you don't believe it, live in peace without talking about it. Mentre il voler per forza smentire l'esistenza di Dio significa che ipotizzi la sua esistenza.
Just to undermine the credibility of everything you claim: animals are capable of jealousy, how they are capable of anger and love. Ci sono migliaia di studi sull'argomento.
Giancarlo.
For Giancarlo:
Along the lines of your natural atheist reasoning, I would like you to answer a simple question, I'll illustrate it to you.
If we admit that we are simple animals, which evolved from inferior species gradually acquire experience over time, so as to become intelligent with the passing of the centuries, ciò significa che l'uomo è la sua esperienza.
L'uomo non può figurarsi nulla di cui non ha esperienza, it is always limited to it. (An example to make you understand better is the battle of Gaugamela -October 1st of 331 a.C.- fought by Alexander the Great, who saw that he was fighting against animals never seen before, the elephants, he had a disinquent reaction. Alexander the Great was frightened because until now, having never seen them before, he was unable to imagine such animals). (Another example: in trying to imagine a monster we cannot imagine anything that we have never seen: we will profile something with the head of a lion and the legs of a chicken…which is a set of animals already known to us; or we will alter the shapes, always starting from primary forms known to us).
Now, let us think of the first man and woman(for you man/ape and woman/ape) which means 'render solid'; exactly the first two because if for you we derive from monkeys there will still have been some first ones or accumulations of initial specimens.
These first individuals, they observe the outside world, nature and thus acquire notions by which they invigorate their intelligence.
BUT in nature, in the animal world, there is no justice, compassion, the conscience, happiness, suffering and many other things. (Animals feel no displeasure in killing another animal out of starvation), per cui questi valori se l'uomo non ha potuto osservarli in natura (intesa come mondo animale esterno al loro 'io') born' he has the ability to imagine them due to the limitation of his experience, how come they exist?? Where do they come from??
The answer is that they come from God. They are within us, because God wanted it so.
(I believe that Adam and Eve's sin by which they came to know good and evil was necessary for our salvation).
(Se non esistesse il male non potremmo capire cos'è veramente il bene e viceversa; così come se non esistesse il salato non sapremmo cos'è il dolce e vic. -silly but efficient example-).
Sandro Santucci
P.s.
Le mie scuse all'autrice del forum per i miei precedenti messaggi anonimi.
For Giancarlo:
La differenza tra l'uomo e l'animale è la coscienza e la volontà.
Animals don't decide to go on hunger strike, they do not resolve not to eat.
(Infatti secondo Freud ciò che distingue l'uomo dall'animale è che noi abbiamo impulsi che possiamo inibire, gli animali hanno l'istinto che non possono in nessun modo soggiogare).
(There are differences between feeling love for your puppies and having COMPASSION and being MERCY towards others).
Anger is a consequence of hunger or PHYSICAL danger.
Justice animals prove it? Mercy they feel? Moral suffering animals experience? L'autocoscienza di essere vivi e che se non si nutrono periscono ce l'hanno? Forgiveness they prove it? LA COMPASSIONE ce l'hanno? E l'etica e la morale?…
(Watching animals grabbing themselves to survive, come ha fatto l'uomo/scimmia a figurarsi la pietà per quelli che non mangiano o che periscono? Or forgiveness for stealing food from others if such values weren't already within him?)
(Per quanto riguarda l'amore credo che Dio, being love, has radiated it to all forms of life, ma solo l'uomo, also endowed with conscience, he is able to be aware of it and to give it even to his enemies through the will, which animals don't do).
However, I respect your point of view, although I don't share it, but the same will be true for you.
I think it is fatuous to continue, cause your stubbornness.
I hope one day you can use your stubbornness to praise God.
Good day,
Sandro Santucci
Thank you Sandro for saying what I wanted to say for me, you spared me the trouble.
I would just like to clarify, about animals and replying to Giancarlo, that, precisely because I work with animals as a profession, exactly the dogs, since I'm a dog breeder (but I also have horses), and I live in the countryside, which I can confidently state is all God's creation. And this is understood all the more by being in the midst of it and living in close contact with nature, where it is continuously observed and we witness the changes of nature on a daily basis, how everything can be perfect and in harmony, certainly not the result of fortuitous chance. Each thing works in relation to another, it's all a circle, from how I cultivate tomatoes and see their fruits grow, da come si comportano gli animali tra di loro e nei confronti dell'uomo. E' all wonderfully wonderful :))) Jealousy and anger in animals are derived only from their survival instinct and not to be abandoned. Nell'uomo i sentimenti negativi sono derivati dal suo orgoglio, cosa che l'animale non capisce. And when I felt life growing inside me, who out of nowhere and feeding through my body became a little human being with soul and conscience, able to recognize right from wrong, without even having taught him, right away. But you have to be really "closed" not to realize that this is not the result of chance, all these mechanisms so perfect that they cannot arise by chance, anche perchè la legge naturale che possiamo osservare dice che dall'ordine si va verso il disordine e non viceversa" it's all very illogical. Infatti noi dall'ordine della Creazione stiamo andando verso il disordine e il mondo sta degenerando, sia nell'essere umano che nella natura. Everything is falling apart.
certainly, first, we have an innate conscience about right and wrong, cosa che gli animali non hanno e non si pongono nemmeno il problema dell'ieri e del domani o dell'eternità, but only of the present, knowing they are hungry they must eat or sleep, second they kill not out of pride and malice like human beings, but only for need. L'animale non ha senso di orgoglio, completely human characteristic. E non dipende dall'intelligenza, visto che l'intelligenza è la facoltà di capire come funzionano le cose che si osservano e saperle rifare.
L'essere umano è dotato di coscienza perchè "Dio ha fatto ogni cosa bella al suo tempo: egli ha perfino messo nei loro cuori il pensiero dell'eternità, sebbene l'uomo non possa comprendere dal principio alla fine l'opera che Dio ha fatta." (Ecclesiastes 3:11) Infatti non possiamo comprendere l'opera di Dio, believe it is impossible, even atheists cannot give answers, even believing in the primordial broth they must ask themselves why this beginning of life.
What a beautiful life and what a beautiful creation of God. L'uomo ha intelligenza e coscienza perchè Dio cosi l'ha creato, in his image, and his science is welcome to explain the functioning of his Creation but it will never be able to go beyond this, ne potrà solo spiegare il funzionamento che osserva ma mai le dinamiche dell'inizio o le motivazioni della nostra vita.
God bless her for the sparkle of her blogs!!
Thanks for the work you do!
Sandro Santucci
P.s.
I highly recommend this link (www.youtube.com/danilovalla), nel quale sono esposte esaustivamente alcune prove sull'esattezza di ciò che dice la Bibbia, being it the word of God.
P.p.s.
I apologize for the incorrect placement of my comment, but i can't post it in the proper section, due to the captcha below which the space to rewrite it does not appear.
Aggiungo delle ultime considerazioni per concludere la dissertazione in merito all'agnosticismo e l'ateismo.
Abbiamo detto che l'uomo non può figurarsi nulla di cui non ha esperienza, and the values it has come from God, as the concept of God himself.
"God made everything beautiful in its time: egli ha perfino messo nei loro cuori il pensiero dell'eternità, sebbene l'uomo non possa comprendere dal principio alla fine l'opera che Dio ha fatta." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
Being agnostic does not mean denying God (which is in our hearts), ma ammettere l'impossibilità che l'uomo possa giungere a Lui, a body so perfect and different from us, e che ogni tentativo dell'uomo di cercarLo sia vano.
But this also admits the need for God to reveal himself so that we can assert his existence, poichè l'uomo è un essere imperfetto.
But God revealed himself! Read the Bible! (There is a wealth of evidence on the correctness of what is written inside that demonstrate that it is the word of God and not of men!) (One of many is the following: in Genesis it is written that plants were created after the creation of the sky and light. Today we know, regarding studies begun in the 1771, that the vital condition of plants is chlorophyll photosynthesis which requires light and oxygen - sky and light- and that they cannot live, then, without light and oxygen. So what Genesis describes is confirmed, which was written many years before by men, who did not possess such knowledge. How is it possible? Because it is written by men inspired by God, therefore it is the word of God and He cannot be wrong!) http://www.youtube.com/danilovalla
To make the reasoning consistent, then, it would be necessary to modify the initial premises: l'uomo dovrebbe negare l'esistenza di Dio (atheism), not the gap between us and Him, but this is impossible. L'uomo non può immaginarsi nulla di cui non ha esperienza, quindi Dio non può essere un invenzione dell'uomo.
Ma la gente non si ravvede nemmeno davanti all'evidenza. "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who perish; but for us who are on the way to salvation, it is the power of God" (The Corinthians 1:18).
" Eight days later the disciples were still at home and Thomas was with them. Jesus came behind closed doors, he stood among them and said: "Peace to you". Then he said to Tommaso: “Put your finger here and look at my hands; stretch out your hand, and put it in my side; and no longer be incredulous but a believer". Thomas answered: “My Lord and my God!”. Jesus said to him: “Because you saw me, you believed: blessed are those who have not seen but believe". (Teacher 20, 26-29) "
Sandro Santucci
Thanks Sandro, Don't apologize for the poorly placed comment, actually I would just put a little' of order in my posts because it often happens that people start with one topic and end up with another, going all off topic with the title of the publication. But here we stayed perfectly on topic. And for anonymous comments I don't prefer them because you can't start a discussion, and the name "Anonymous" at the top of each comment is not really the best!
Yup, I know Danilo Valla, unfortunately I can't open the movies because of my very slow gprs connection (sono rimasta all'età della pietra!).
But there are so many sites on creationism, a parte l'italiano http://www.creazionismo.org, very well stocked it is http://www.answersingenesis.org (in English). The books of the geneticist Giuseppe Sermonti are perfect in explaining the Bible and the Big Bang, and beginning of life. Everything fits! The Bible says right! The problem is only Darwinism, che infatti era e rimane solo una teoria causa dell'anello mancante. Not to mention the site http://www.lingannodellevoluzione.com
What problems are there on the Discussions page? How about a capcha with no space underneath? If you let me know I'll fix it!
See you soon
My problem is that at the bottom of every page of a post (except this), I try to write the comment, but when it asks me for the captcha I have no where to write it.
I'll try using another computer to make sure it's not my problem.
Thanks for the links mentioned!
🙂
Sandro Santucci
E' strange, everything works for me… in capcha it is activated against spam, but he doesn't ask me. Maybe you need to be logged into google?
I tried posting the comment both with my google account, that without, but the result is the same.
I really think it's my computer, I will try to fix the problem, asking someone more competent than me. 🙂
Grazie per l'interessamento!
Sandro Santucci
I am Catholic, but I have never read such a jumble of visionary theories. All to square a literal view of the Bible.
For the evangelicals present
You are equally guilty of all the sins that Christianity has produced, since all Christians, along the story, they are guilty of heinous deeds.
I never liked playing the blame game.
Well Elmo the Lavative, sono contenta che tu ti sia sfogato in questo contesto con un discorso fuori tema che non c'entra nulla, but let's end it here because I'm not interested in discussions between Christians.
By the way, strange way to be a Christian and not believe the Bible or only half believe it when Jesus said explicitly and repeatedly that the Word is truth. E la parola è Lui che ha sempre citato anche l'antico testamento e anche la creazione di Dio per mezzo di Adamo ed Eva. Clear your mind 😀
So Adam and Eve really existed?
First of all when referring to the Bible, it is incorrect to say "the genesis" perchè così si indica l'atto della creazione, it must be said "the genesis" as it refers to the book of genesis. This was aimed at all of you who commented, but above all to the one who took the trouble to write these things.
Secondly, I would like to understand who put this nonsense about errors in the chromosomes into your head.
What is this bullshit that we are degrading?
It's called genetic variability, at the basis of DNA duplication mechanisms there are errors at the molecular level, which are not imperfections at all, these errors are the basis of the diversity of genes that allows us, like all living species, di evolversi per adattarsi meglio all'ambiente in cui vivono (see natural selection).
in short, I'm definitely not against the Bible, but people should understand that it's just a way to give people answers (especially in past centuries).
E' absurd to think that the genesis contains historical elements.
Cain could never build anything, nor did Adam exist.
Non c'è stato nessun primo uomo creato dal nulla, we all evolved from primordial single-celled organisms that arose out of the favorable conditions that arose on our planet. And the earth was not created in 6 days, everything was born from the Big Bang…
You will be bored by this point and you will be more than convinced that maybe I am a non-believer in God, on the contrary, I believe it, it's a lot. His work was only (and by only I don't mean to belittle it at all) to trigger the Big Bang, di li, things happened accordingly, sticking to his plans, but proceeding alone towards the path that he himself had traced, to make this beautiful universe, in which we live took shape and life.
I share the answer! I would like to submit a reflection: before the fall Adam and Eve may have had other children? God told Eve “I will greatly multiply the pains of your childbirth as if you had previously given birth painlessly, and then the famous sons of God who mingled with the daughters of men could not be just such sons? it's a bit bizarre, I know but what do you think?
sure, it is very logical that Adam and Eve, being the very first men, before Cain and Abel, have made other children who have gone to populate other areas. But this always after the Fall, which occurred because of their disobedience. Here then is that the Bible says that the two married women from other areas. They were always relatives, daughters of uncles or of generations following Adam and Eve. Let's not forget that the Bible says that Adam lived 930 years, and of Eve, even if he doesn't say it, he will have lived as many years, little more little less. In all those centuries the areas surrounding the Eden valley became populated. In the beginning there was no sin of incest, introduced later, and inbreeding led to no disease. We are at the beginning near the perfection of Creation, the degeneration started much later, as we move away from that period, it got worse and worse, up to the current state of things.
– Then Adam knew his wife again, who bore a son and named him Seth, because she said: “God gave me another descendant instead of Abel, whom Cain killed". A son was also born to Seth, and called him Enosh. THEN they began to CALL on the name of the LORD. – (Genesis 4:25-26)
Seth is the descendant who was given in place of Abel, and if there were other children of God (understood as men who already invoked God) they would be mentioned, and it would not have been necessary for God to have given Seth to Adam.
All men born before Cain and Abel, after the Fall, they were people who did not call upon God (the children of men). Only the descendants of Abel, and of the following Seth, belong to the children of God.
The text clearly says that, if Adam and Eve had not sinned, Eve would have given birth painlessly, But it was not so: Eve sinned and was therefore punished!